Plato and Mill on the relationship between individual and society Essay

Plato was born(p) approximately 428-7 BC, he lived for the roughly part of his life in A thuslys, and had much to enjoin nearly A thenian democracy. factory was born much later in London in 1806, but although everywhere two thousand geezerhood of political philosophy divide the two, much of the same issues and concerns arise in some(prenominal) their work though often with very distinguish fitted outlooks. despite their differing credences Plato and milling machinery atomic number 18 both antithetical, or in other wrangling believe that the tyranny of the volume is to be feargond. Plato believes that respective(prenominal)s are sel angle and observe their own self-interests at the expense of the rest of the race, and follow their own deterrent example path. The philosopher idiosyncratic is epitomised by the Gadfly. The gadfly is referred to by Plato in the Apology, to portray Socrates descent with the Athenian political scene. Socrates believed he irritated for the purpose of trail raft closer to the truth to sting people and whip them into a fury, whole in the service of truth.The gadfly describes a soulfulness who upsets the status quo by posing lots of questions. Plato commonwealths that while the gadfly is effort slight to swat, the cost to edict of silencing an individual plainly because of his irritancy could be extremely high. This seems to belie some of what he has to say on his commonwealth, as he stifles the debase class citizens in the Kallipolis, counting their opinions as obsolete in semblance to the philosophers. The gadfly is to a fault work forceti matchlessd in the Bible in the Book of Jeremiah in like manner relating to political influence Egypt is a very fair heifer the gadfly cometh, it cometh from the northmost. Plato believes that Democracy fosters the falsely kind of individual, hence the Kallipolis, which is the inverse of Democracy, designed to need about the right way of living.In Platos view, an individual is fulfilled by the contribution that he or she makes to the overall go of the community, and the Kallipolis is designed to make this possible for every one and only(a). Platos state also see the individuality of its members and treats them equally. In Platos republic, the state limits the independence of its individuals, but full to ensure that all the members receive the same amount of immunity. In erect, Plato believes that the repression of individual liberty results in equal freedom for the society as a whole.This is contrasted to drudgery, whose view is that, excluding children, the individual is sovereign over himself, his body and his mind. Interference in an individuals beliefs or actions is wrong. Unless it is known that one is inflicting harm upon a nonher, treat custodyt is not justified. pulverisation has three liberties that are the hallmark of a free society- the first is the freedom of horizons and sen seasonnt on all subjects, including freed om of facet and publication.The second liberty is the freedom of taste the fact that others may pooh-pooh of an individuals actions or beliefs, is not justified by submarine as the initiation of interference, for example homosexuality. The third and final liberty prerequisite for a free society is the freedom of individuals to unite as vast as the resulting union does not range to others being harmed as a result. factory forbids coercion and deception within the union, as he believes it is unfounded to postulate a direct negative impact on the usefulness of others (this does not involve doing something which someone else does not agree with).Mill elevates individuality and self-development or human flourishing as he believes that it entrust save bene blend in society, as the individuals will be able to contribute much if they reach their large potential and are allowed to develop their own ideals and opinions. Mill has concerns over the limits of which power piece of ass be legitimately exercised by society over the individual. Safeguards are obligatory to ensure that the majority does not restrict the minority. Mankind would be no more justified in silencing one person, than that one person if he had the power would be justified in silencing mankind.Plato believes that false opinions could be dangerous to society, whereas Mill would say they were necessary in order to help obtain the truth, something that we as humans so desperately strive to obtain. Plato believes that satisfying our desires is something scarcely worth caring about, whereas Mill would encourage us to do so as spacious as it brings utility quite a than harm. Free discussion in Mills opinion will completely aid us in get closer to the truth, as who is to decide what is true if there is no deduction? A combination of views, questions and opinions are better than one view or opinion that is decided to be true, and not questioned. There are unceasingly people who will d isagree with something that others agree with, so who is right?Plato believes that in order to have a productive and harmonious society, conditioning or training is necessary to ensure that the members actual desires coincide as remote as possible with their real desires, thus reducing conflict. Mill would repugn that this is in a sense brainwashing the individuals to believe that they are elated and that they are fulfilling desires, when in fact they are only fulfilling what the Philosopher Kings have told them they desire. Plato believes in critical freedom, which the Kallipolis is intended to provide to its members as much as their spirit permits, Mill however believes in actual freedom in which all is permitted but harm (The Harm article of belief).Mills rejection of social contracts is tended to(p) with the acceptance of certain rules of conduct in our dealing with others in invert for the cling toion we receive from society. For example, we are determine to observe an d respect the rights of others and check to him As soon as any part of a persons conduct affects prejudicially the interests of others, society has jurisdiction over it. Otherwise Mill states that foolish actions do not deserve penalties, and that mature individuals should be odd to develop and coagulate their own views and act on their own impulses. all in all society can do is help educate its members as to what is good and im moralistic before they reach the state of maturity and indeed the freedom they have a right to.Platos similes are utilize to picture the negative aspects of democracy and Athenian politicians. The simile of the cave is used to represent how politicians will conceal the truth from the people (represented by the prisoners). The people are ignorant and do not possess the knowledge that they deserve. The prisoners are bound and only have a view of the wall in expect of them, there is a fire behind them, mingled with them and the wall is nothing. every that the prisoners can see are shadows of themselves, and of the objects behind them. The prisoners naively believe that the shadows are real as they have nothing else upon which to base their knowledge. One of the prisoners manages to flail from the cave, and in the light of the sun sees the real reality for the first time. He realises that all this time he was deceived by shadows.This man, if according to Plato is in pigheadedness of the capacity for knowledge and wisdom will feel it is his duty to go back to the cave, release his fellow prisoners and enlighten them. The other prisoners are knockout to persuade however, as his exposure to the sunlight renders him unable to see the shadows as clearly as before, and so the prisoners just think that he is less dexterous than when he was trapped. Plato justifies the Philosopher Kings lie to the people in order to protect them. Plato argues the necessity of a structured organised society separate from the right(prenominal) worl d in which every individual reaches their upper limit potential and has a fundamental part to play in contributing all they can to their community as a whole. Education is available to all members of the Kallipolis regardless of gender.Mill states in his introductory chapter to On Liberty that the struggle between liberty and authority is the most conspicuous feature. Mill demonstrable a principle to counteract what he calls the interference of collective opinion on an individuals independence, this principle was called the Liberty principle. Mill and Plato have opposite styles of communicating their points, Mill expresses his ideas in the course of discursive arguments, Plato however expresses his ideas in the form of dialogue, something which Mill praises Plato for regardless of their conflicting conclusions. Platos Kallipolis, or utopia is designed as a hierarchical state consisting of three different classes, the Producers, the Auxiliaries, and the Guardians.These three diffe rent classes will have very different experiences of life, and which one they will lead depends on their capacity for knowledge. The three classes experience different upbringings, and receive different levels of education. Plato contradicts himself, he says that all people in the Kallipolis should be friends and equals yet he also unashamedly states that the Producers will not be able to lease how they wish to live their lives, and that their opinions are the least congruous. The Producers are in effect not free, but rather slaves to their senior ranking class, the Guardians. The Producers are thought to be the least intelligent mass of the population, and they are then judge to trust and believe their rulers.This is justified by Plato because it is better for them to be to a lower place the take of divine wisdom something that the minority of the population possess, and what makes those that do worthy to rule over all others. Platos belief is that if these less intelligent p eople are allowed to think freely, then they will make the wrong choices, and an individual is only worth what they contribute to their community as a whole. This means that personal desires are not as important as the overall functioning of the community, which is immaculately ruled by the Philosopher Kings who have the might to learn and retain the knowledge leaded to rule and turn tail the citizens of the Kallipolis.Mills views contradict these of Platos his liberalist view is that the individual is important in creating the desired environment within the state and is worthy of reaching their full potential in all areas. Mill considers freedoms of opinion and of actions necessary, and his Harm Principle was make to help protect other individuals from being hurt. Mill believes that individuals have a fundamental right to discover and develop their knowledge to their maximum capacity with the absence of a priori constraints.Platos view on the freedom of individual development of knowledge is that it is the despotism of custom. Mill prioritises the freedom of thought and expression he believes that unless we push an argument to its absolute limit, then we cannot claim to fully understand it. Mill says that we must listen to everyone, in time those that offend us, or those who we believe to be irrelevant. Mills confession for this is that if one person converses out against an otherwise unanimous society about a certain topic, and they are right, then they could enlighten the mass to the truth. If they speak out and are found to be wrong, then they have simply helped the mass come closer to the truth by falsely argue it.Platos analogy of the Beast shows how politicians will keep society keen in the short term, while not regarding what is best for them in the long term. It works on the ass of keeping the people satisfied rather than truly doing what is best for them (according to Plato). The flight attendant of the Beast manipulates it with what is wan ts at the time by giving it treats, with no regards for its health. It is made clear however that the Beast is manipulating the keeper too, by getting what it currently desires out of him. For this reason Plato says that freedom to do what one wants when ignoring the absolute truth, or the long term real personal effects of certain action or decision can be electronegative to the inward domain of consciousness.Similarly, his analogy of the Ship of State depicts his pose on Athenian democracy. The captain of the ship is stronger than any of the crew, but he lacks the adroitness of working on and handling the boat. The crew argue over who should be in incorporate, and beg the captain to allow them to take control of the ship. Those who succeed turn the voyage into a drunken pleasure canvas. The true navigator or star-gazer is overlooked by his fellow men although he is the only one skilled enough to actually guide the ship, he possesses the art of navigation, and seamanship. He i s unable to gain the control needed to steer the ship to safety. The captain represents Athenian citizens responsive only to the rhetoric of the crew, the crew represent the politicians, they are manipulative and are not concerned with the truth, but rather power.Plato says that eventually the crew will lease the navigator for help, sacrificing their freedom and control for their safety and social benefit. The navigator is candid of using his knowledge of astronomy (knowledge of Being) to help guide the ship and those on it through a world of constant quantityly changing and sometimes-dangerous weather conditions (the world of Becoming). The crew must surrender to the navigator, as he possesses not opinions or beliefs, but facts. The crew have to recognise his superior knowledge and therefore his authority, although they would fail to do so if it did not ultimately benefit them. Mill would argue that this analogy is incomplete, for the crew are able to be taught the skill of navig ation themselves and do not need to rely solely on the star-gazer, wouldnt a crew of assailable navigators be better than just one?Mill would argue that it is vital for the well being of the state to be able to argue against the truth. He argues the positive value of cursing as it challenges assumptions that are established as being right or wrong. We can criticise Mill for assuming that all individuals are capable of being rational and having rational thoughts and discussions. Equally, Plato fails to recognise the need for questioning and examination and assumes that people will accept sacrificing their freedom because he tells them too. If the tyranny of the majority is to be feared then why would Plato put the minority in power, and reave the majority of control over their lives and the lives of their children?Mill and Plato hold the same or similar views on the issue of gender. Plato says that all citizens of the Republic, male or young-bearing(prenominal) will have access t o equal education, as gender is obsolete when knowledge is the main focus, although a woman could never become a Philosopher Ruler. In 1869 Mill wrote The Subjection of Women, in which he encouraged and back up equal rights for both genders. Mill encouraged the equal rights for women on the basis of utility. He argued that we could not criticise women for being less skilled than men if we did not give them equal opportunity to try. He also tell that society could not be at its best when half the population could contribute nothing to society outside of the home.Plato had a number of conditions that he says will help maximise the usefulness of all members of society, the stories which children are told must be authorised, and there is the censorship of music and the restriction of meat and fish unless it is roasted. Children are to be removed from their parents and are not to know who their parents are and visa versa.They are to call all males old enough stick and all females moth er, the purpose of this was to minimise private possessive emotions therefore reinforcing their focus on their relationship with their community. Deformed children and children of inferior breeding will be put away in some mysterious unexplored place as they ought to be. The works of Homer and Hesiod, two of the early Greek poets are banned, as they encourage their readers to fear death, and depict the vault of heaven as being filled with the inextinguishable laughter of the blessed Gods. Plato on the other hand banned loud laughter.Mill would argue that this repression is an invasion of basic human rights, and the suppression of individual development and human flourishing will do nothing but hinder the development and forward motion of mankind. How can society benefit if most individuals are at a disadvantage as to developing their own unique skills? Plato classifies people in three groups, as gold, the best members of society fit to be guardians, as silver members fit to be soldiers, and the common herd of brass and iron, fit only to be the producers.This is what Plato describes as the one royal lie used to deceive both the rulers, and the rest of the city, if he can justify lying about Gods creation of the three differing classes of people then why is he justified in choosing which one they belong to? raising is organised with the strongest members of society used simply to keep the population constant and as best bred as they can be. The strongest of sires are allowed to have the most children and the weaker ones less.The fundamental difference between Mill and Plato is that while Plato wished to radically throw the structure of society in order to condition and force the people to behave and think in a certain way, Mill would put up the people to develop naturally, yet offer them all the education and didactics needed to steer them away from negative things and intervene only when one is inflicting harm upon another. Mills two main criticisms of Platos republic are that the proper function of the state is to regulate behaviour, not to encourage one or anothers set of belief or values.The second is that tolerance should be restricted to cases where it does not undermine the moral foundations of the community. He would argue that social bigotry should be restrained for the interestingness of encouraging freedom of thought and expression. Mill endorses Grotes admiration of Athenian tolerance, as tolerance is a necessity and encourages genius as a society may have persons of talentbut genius in such a soil is fatally stunted in its growth.Plato on the other hand criticises Athenian tolerance on the basis that the maintenance of public emotions requires repression by both law and by non-legal sanctions. He held the belief that Athenian tolerance undermines civic spirit postulate for the furtherance of the tolerant society itself. Aristotle, a student of Platos born in 384BC stated that it is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it. It is interesting that somebody taught by Plato would recognise the need for the self-development of opinion, something that Mill believes to be essential for a reformist society. Mill states that his father taught him to value Plato and his contributions to philosophy, and he says that he does just that. He called himself a pioneer when he began his translations of Platos work.Perhaps this was because he believed that the time that separated the two philosophers had made way for changes albeit dramatic, to Platos ideas that would concur with the unexampled world. Mill criticised Plato for trying to show that virtue is in the individuals interest, but also for attempting to give justification that virtue should be preferred at all. uncomplete Plato nor Mills work is flawless, so criticisms can be made on their errors and self-contradictions, yet both of these men helped advance philosophy immensely, and provided the basis of much discussion and debate. For Mill, freedom is necessary and desirable by both the individual and society. For Plato however freedom is not of fundamental concern it is outlying(prenominal) more important to live according to the eternal and immutable truths. herein lays the biggest contrast in the works of these two influential philosophers as regards the relationship between the individual and society.